Developing a 'Favorite Intern' Mix
  • Like I mentioned in my intro post, it’s been almost a year since I made any serious use of pheromones, and I’m thinking it may just be time to get back in the game.

    Here's my situation: I'm interning at a government hospital until next summer. Those who have done any kind of internship know that it can be a minefield of egos, with too many bosses overseeing too few responsibilities. Especially in the field of psychology, where clinicians are trained to pay a really lot of attention to the minutiae of human behavior, an intern often feels incredibly scrutinized. Also, my field (psychology) is dominated by women, so most of the people I have to answer to are either women or passive-aggressive men.

    I'm wanting a mix to counteract this problem:

    1. To promote positive evaluation
    2. To increase general likability & charisma
    3. To increase trust & open communication (and counteract passive aggression)
    4. Maybe a little respect boost, but not so much as to make the awkward narcissists I work with feel too challenged.

    That last one is important. I tried a couple drops of Wolf not too long ago and they just couldn't handle the signature. It provoked even more intense scrutiny, and shit-testing that I'm really not in a position to be able to respond to appropriately. Maybe with some extra buffer, the Wolf could be a winner. But the lesson of the day was that I really am the low man on the totem pole, and an alpha signature is just not optimal.

    There are a couple of different ways I could go with this mix. I could, as noted above, start with something respect-driven and buffer it until it works. But I'm thinking a better strategy would be to start with a signature that addresses the situation more directly, with just a touch of respectability notes.

    DHEAS could be very valuable for this, with its tendency to promote positive evaluation. Perhaps also EST, to create a protective adoption effect. These two together could send a powerful message about my fitness in this environment.

    Maybe something like:

    • 25mcg DHEAS
    • 2.5mcg EST

    What do you think? More EST?

    On the other hand, beta-androsterone could be a very nice, softening pheromone for this environment. It's charismatic and non-threatening without being too feminizing. It might even allow me to throw in a little androsterone or androstenone for testicular appeal.

    What kinds of mixes would you try in this situation?
  • Beta-androstanol might be a good fit for this situation too, actually. Might even be worth trying solo.
  • Now that I think of it, I actually still have some Erox... It makes women feel empowered... I wonder if making these women feel empowered would be a good thing...
  • Have you tried Androsterone Sulfate yet?  
  • Nope. Is that the one Pago was thinking could be TAA?
  • Androsterone Sulfate never made it public ~ Chris promised many times to sell it but he did not !

    It´s in Cutler´s studies and this says a lot about that molecule !

    there is nothing what would speak against it to sell it ~ except that it´s a very good molecule ;)

    Well ... that Mark did not comment on my findings and Chris as well says  a lot as well i guess ..

  • Sounds shady to me. :-?

    I actually still have all my mones packed up in plastic bags inside a box I moved to BFE with. Last night I picked out one of the bags that was full of togo sprayers -- a bunch of them leaked, so the bag was kind of nasty. But... the first thing I picked out of the bag in decent condition was a half full sprayer of Eau Naturale 1.1. I forgot about that stuff.

    It doesn't particularly match up with any of my specific goals, but I remembered really liking it and couldn't see any way it could hurt my situation -- since it's such an innocuous mix.

    The results were actually quite promising! I'm going to start a journal and put the details in there. The basic things I noticed were slightly less general scrutiny from bosses, slightly better feedback about my work performance, and slightly more attentiveness from patients. There was also a smooth, easy self-effect. I'm going to try this again tomorrow at 2 sprays to see how it does me. Once I get a good feel for EN on its own in this environment, maybe I could add a little something extra for more of the specific qualities I'm looking for. Perhaps a small amount of est or some extra epiandrosterone.

    I'd love to hear some other suggestions about what kinds of mixes you might put together for this type of situation.
  • An additional 1-2 mcg of Anone would works in great harmony with DHEAS for respect and social charisma. I never got the impression that both sexes felt threatened by me but I think your mileage may vary if you live in a big or small city.
  • DHEAS + Anone sounds like a promising combo!

    I have still never gotten around to solo testing anone, but I may just try adding a mcg or two to some DHEAS first.
  • One thing we have to solve ... and that´s the biggest problem we´re facing !

    it´s a reliable source for single molecules ..

    More than TP offers ...

    ( well i exclude Chris as he´s not realiable in my eyes because he´s a heavy drug addict due to what he posted and the information i´d get from Mark +

    many peeps i know learned that Chris is ... to say it polite ... really problematic to deal with ..

    when working on a mix ... we have to learn how simple mixes work ..

    this means mixes of 2 or 3 molecules ..

    then we can move into more complicated mixes i think ..

  • Yeah, I agree establishing reliable sources for molecules is a really important goal.

    But, for the time being, there is so much to work with just in the standards that are available from True, plus the DIY molecules.

    Because mixes are really the important thing, ratios. Making even simple mixes is insanely complicated, but rewarding. I'm going to transfer all my stuff from HTH over here soon, like my Androsterone Spectrum experiments (rone, epirone, dhea, dheas, 7-keto). Some of the effects there were really cool and unexpected.

    Earlier today I was reading a great article from the New York Times about the flavor science used to make junk food more addictive:

    Here's a great quote that I found particularly relevant to pheromones, as the sense of smell is so closely related:

    Moskowitz’s path to mastering the bliss point began in earnest not at Harvard but a few months after graduation, 16 miles from Cambridge, in the town of Natick, where the U.S. Army hired him to work in its research labs. The military has long been in a peculiar bind when it comes to food: how to get soldiers to eat more rations when they are in the field. They know that over time, soldiers would gradually find their meals-ready-to-eat so boring that they would toss them away, half-eaten, and not get all the calories they needed. But what was causing this M.R.E.-fatigue was a mystery. “So I started asking soldiers how frequently they would like to eat this or that, trying to figure out which products they would find boring,” Moskowitz said. The answers he got were inconsistent. “They liked flavorful foods like turkey tetrazzini, but only at first; they quickly grew tired of them. On the other hand, mundane foods like white bread would never get them too excited, but they could eat lots and lots of it without feeling they’d had enough.”

    This contradiction is known as “sensory-specific satiety.” In lay terms, it is the tendency for big, distinct flavors to overwhelm the brain, which responds by depressing your desire to have more. Sensory-specific satiety also became a guiding principle for the processed-food industry. The biggest hits — be they Coca-Cola or Doritos — owe their success to complex formulas that pique the taste buds enough to be alluring but don’t have a distinct, overriding single flavor that tells the brain to stop eating.

    I think phero mixes are like this too -- they should tickle a related cluster of receptors in a symphonic way that is hard to pin down. That way we can not just produce the drug like effects that pheromone product developers have been mostly aiming for, but effects that are more like real social engineering.
  • As I transfer all the old HTH stuff over here it's really reawakening my thought process for this stuff. The formula for Aquagen looks like it could actually be a perfect mix for my purposes here. I still have my sprayer of AQ somewhere in my phero kit. I may just give it a go sometime in the next week.
  • Some thoughts on this topic- someone mentioned Anone, which sounds like a good addition. It's worth playing with the alpha molecules in really small quantities. Check out what .01mcg of Anone does, for example. Or .001mcg. It's still quite useful in those doses, and with less requirement for a cover scent.

    I have some androsterone sulfate, if anyone in the States with a good history of reporting wants to play with it. I'm not sure how to interpret it's capacity to act as an opiate and suppress lutenizing hormone pulses. Especially the second. What's the impact of that? But it FEELS good so far, in a silly drunken kind of way with women and other stuff mixed in.

    Also, if there are a lot of women why not a little androstadienone? It will improve their opinion of you solidly. I'm open to the possibility it may be good for guys too, though the dosage would have to be a lot smaller then, and there would have to be some other molecule to sweeten the pot. If you put something on a cotton pad in your pocket you can dispose of it really easily when you're done with it. Such an application won't give you the control that a wrist application will, but it's convenient, at least. And it won't leave you sniffing the stuff for days as it's in your laundry pile.

    A conversation between FlySoHigh and myself turned up that octopamine in bitter oranges is a stimulant. I know you often use orange EO in your cover scents (I do too) and orange EO is traditionally regarded as 'stimulating.' I wonder if this molecule might be the culprit and how it might impact a mix.

  • Wow, some really good ideas in there!

    I had just been wondering over the past week, actually, whether the mcg doses we've been using might be much higher than needed for many molecules. You've had good experiences with ng doses of anone? Have they been qualitatively similar to the larger doses ordinarily used?

    Minh has been awesome enough to send me some rone sulfate, which I'm really looking forward to playing with. The reports sound intriguing, and the molecule is a major player in axillary output studies.

    I have a version of EN with just a few parts A1, which I'll be testing in this environment soon. Most of my clients are men and I need them to feel comfortable, so high or even moderate dose a1 is contraindicated, but I think low dose a1 should be fine and may help with the lady doctors. I've been continuing my trial of EN 1.1 (with no a1) at work this week and have been really amazed at how much less judgmental and more accepting -- aligned? Even congratulatory -- they've been toward me since I started using it. It's not been a 180, but I'd say it's a good 90 degree change.

    Finally, your experiments with exogenous compounds as pheromones are certainly the most advanced going so far, and they are making me seriously think about the potential value of getting serious about studying traditional aromatherapy. Cross-pollinating that type of practical knowledge with the deep understanding of the olfactory-hypothalamic system we're developing here could be some pretty serious stuff.
  • At this point, my focus has shifted from "maximum utility" to minimizing the downsides, socially and healthwise. In that light;

    I've had good experiences with ng doses of all the alpha molecules, but Anone might be the best of them. If you get the dosage low enough you lose the closed gestures and most of the negative reactions that you'd get from some people (maybe there's a little neck rubbing from stress, especially if you don't use a buffer.) Around one or two nanograms, the mix comes across more like a firm pheromonal handshake. It's still aggressive, but not overpoweringly so. I can't smell the stuff, but at lower doses i don't get the negative reactions that really bad smelling mixes would give, either. Higher doses are still much better for particular people or at certain times, of course, but that kind of pheromonal discernment isn't really appropriate for a generic mix in an office environment.

    On (another) side note, alpha-THDOC is an interesting GABAergic buffer since its rate of diffusion seems closer to that of the alpha molecules. People can develop a tolerance to the GABAergics while they won't get a tolerance to the stressful portions of the alpha molecules. But otherwise, the longer-acting alpha-THDOC can make a mix a little less treacherous over the course of a day. Alpha-THDOC is also effective in very small quantities. (.001mcg)

    If you dig into the aromatherapy basket, I'd be very interested to see what you pull up. I'd love a more rigorous understanding of how scents work and interact.

    I'm also interested to hear your rone sulfate reports when you add that molecule to your lists. You seem to have read a bit of literature about the molecule, it seems?
  • I haven't researched it specifically, but I've seen it mentioned in some studies of natural output, which raised my interest a year or so ago -- Chris had ruled it out for testing at that time because sniffing a concentrate of it made him feel scared :-?

    I've got to dig into micro dosing some standards. Could the next great alpha mix contain just a mcg or two of total pheromones?
  • "I've got to dig into micro dosing some standards. Could the next great alpha mix contain just a mcg or two of total pheromones? "

    I totally think it could. And large doses of mones have negative health effects in a variety of ways, in any case. Micro doses hit slower and may have less of a range. Rone sulfate at 35mcg or so hits quick. Fractions of a microgram also have an effect, but take an hour or two to kick in and don't have quite the same silage. That kind of delayed response makes testing on others difficult, and personally I've gotten dull to self effects, to be honest. I've been sitting in this pool too long, and I can't feel the water. But if we're willing to be patient we don't need much of this stuff at all.
  • There also may be a contextual aspect to the perceivability of these molecules. Maybe something like music, where you have to hit the right notes together to get a resonant sequence. Taken alone, maybe you have to get up to 35x the natural level of rone sulfate to see a noticeable effect, but perhaps in the right chord that note could carry much more than it should be able to, at a natural or near-natural level. We've all known people that others are oddly open to, or inexplicably attracted to, or strangely protective of, etc. Subtle behavioral and linguistic cues play a big role, but I'd be surprised if pheromone signature didn't also play a role.
  • Very good point. Hax has day and evening mixes, I think, which I've never explored. State of arousal probably plays a role in response. And who knows what else. Exposure to sunlight? Diet? Almost all the stuff I describe was used indoors in the evening. For someone exercising in sunlight things might be totally different.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion